Time and time again in his epistles Paul refuses to appeal to his position as an apostle or to the potential power to punish to substantiate his claim to authority. Not very big on commentaries either. Instead, he uses words like “urge,” “appeal,” and “you know” to persuade his readers to obey him based on the truth and his own trustworthiness. 3. give an account. God. Hebrews 13:17 KJV (i) 17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. BAGD says it should best be translated “to yield to someone’s authority, yield, give way, submit.”. The Greek word translated as "rule" is hegeomia, which means to lead or guide. Thanks Steve. The Greek word is the present participle ageomai, which means “to be in a supervisory capacity, lead, guide.” The idea is of a person who guides others on a path; a leading person among peers. Still have your shovel? I work at a Lutheran Seminary. (I love doing this part. He cited it to support his concept of spiritual authority as a relationship between an authority figure who has positional power and a follower who must obey them. Paul commended himself to men via truth (2 Cor. Dear Baptists…PLEASE stop insisting on using the ancient texts to confuse Christian laypeople of God’s simple, plain message of the Gospel! Good thought. God promised he would preserve his Word, and the English-speaking people of the world have had the Word of God IN ENGLISH since at least William Tyndale (1300″s??). It is as if Baptists do not trust their English Bibles: “Sorry, hold on a minute, I need to check the original Greek before we can believe that God really loves the whole world as your English Bible seems to say in John 3:16…we can only know for sure if we understand and read ancient Greek.”. Hebrews 13:7 is important -- have to consider leaders' way of life and outcome, i.e., not just good administrators. I confess that I would be more open to learning from your comment if it didn’t make so many assumptions about who I am and who my readers are. So now, instead of "obey your … […] Hebrews 13:17: Spiritual Authority’s Most Abused Verse. The reading is from St. Paul's Letter to the Hebrews 13:17-21 Brethren, obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Since this verse was used by my pastor to abuse our entire congregation, and since I took it at face value to mean something it didn’t, I have a vested interest in making sure that folks understand that most English translations have gotten this verse wrong. Verse 17 is one sentence in the Greek text. ( Log Out /  You probably mean the NIV translation, although as others (Karol Emil Thornton-Remiszewski and Quora User) have pointed out: 1. RC Sproul Jr. Is Back in the Pulpit and Joins the Disgraced Pastors”Come Back” Conga Line. Good translation, good application of scripture. noun. Hebrews 13:17 Translation & Meaning. Also, there is no doubt that some preachers and teachers misuse Greek (and Hebrew) to spiritually abuse people under their care. When all of these nuances are taken into account, Hebrews 13:17 could better be nuanced: “Allow yourselves to be persuaded by your leaders who guide you; they alertly care for your souls as people who must fulfill their responsibilities and give an account; allow yourselves to be persuaded so that their work might be a joy, not a burden; for that would be of no advantage to you.”. The one epistle where Paul does refer to his ability to command another person to do something—the book of Philemon—is in fact his most masterful example of persuasive authority. The author wanted the Jewish Christians to continue in the Christian faith. This is someone who listens to reason and then implements the truth in his life. For twelve chapters we have been looking at Jesus. Gary No clue here to the locality or to whom the Epistle was originally sent. They are trying to get as many as they can to heaven. He also set forth the test for the legitimacy of spiritual authority in the book of Titus (cf. Why did they get it wrong? What does this verse really mean? Forgive me if your comment strikes me as a drive-by shotgun blast into a crowded street. In 10:8 he boasts about his authority to build up, not to tear down, but even then he doesn’t want to terrify or intimidate the Corinthians with his letters (2 Cor. They of Italy. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. What about the word often translated “leaders” in this verse? Get a Copy of This KJV Bible - https://bit.ly/2ns1jxF; ... 13:17 Obey 3982 5732 them that have the rule 2233 5740 over … So with all those Scriptures for our framework, let’s examine the passage in question, Hebrews 13:17. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. This verse delineates a Christian's responsibility toward God, who mediates much of His rule in this world through men. Greek. of. This one’s a keeper, and one I’ll pass on to others. Always good to get a referral by a reader who has read a great source on a similar topic. My purpose in using Greek here is not to “wow” readers with Greek words, but rather to show how an understanding of the original biblical text can clarify the most abused verse related to spiritual authority. The term translated "have the rule" then is not something that applies only to elders." If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. Did God really intend that the only people who could REALLY know what he had to say to mankind…would be ancient Greek-educated Baptist Churchmen?? There is one biblical text above all others which authoritarian leaders cite to compel obedience among their followers: Hebrews 13:17. In 2 Corinthians 11, Paul defends his apostolic ministry through testifying to his suffering. I’ll have to check out that book. What Did Ravi Zacharias’s Boards Know and When Did They Know It? Use this table to get a word-for-word translation of the original Greek Scripture. When Hebrews 13, and the Bible in whole, especially the Epistles, are taken into context, the Bible actually encourages us to test the spirits, teaching, and qualification of church elders and to question and expose them with gentleness and humility. I’m so sorry that happened to you, Gary. 13:17 has certainly been a tool used, and abused to control many of God’s people. (HGB Paraphrase). For a PDF which further details the Greek behind Hebrews 13:17, click Hebrews 13:17 in the Greek. Some verses are black and white, no debate but some must be read understanding what is being said, to whom it is being said and by whom and for what reason. It obviously refers to how the members of a congregation are to obey and be submissive to the elders of that congregation. My former pastor often used this verse. Hebrews 13:17: Spiritual Authority’s Most Abused Verse, A Biblical Perspective on Spiritual Authority and Critical Thinking, Identifying Religious Brainwashing: Loading the Language (Part 6 of 8), Hebrews 13:17: Spiritual Authority’s Most Abused Verse « dandelionpompoms, Misuse of Hebrews 13:17 | Cristo La Verdad, A Cure for Legalism: The Gift of Incapability, Book Review of “Broken Trust” by F. Remy Diederich, Spiritual Abuse Recovery: Learning to Risk, Breaking the Chains of Legalistic Parenting, Eight Ways to Identify Religious Brainwashing: The Cult of Confession (Part 4 of 8), When Abusers Act Like Victims, Victims Get Abused, Eight Ways to Identify Religious Brainwashing: The "Sacred Science" (Part 5 of 8), Eight Ways to Identify Religious Brainwashing: Demand for Perfection (Part 3 of 8), Introverts in the Church – Adam S. McHugh, EChurch@Wartburg – 2.20.21- Wade Burleson: Love Is Not Jealous. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. There’s a lot of pain behind it. This shows the English words related to the source biblical texts along with brief definitions. Disobedience to them “would be unprofitable for you.” God designed authority to protect and bless. By looking at your blog, I understand that you have been wounded in the past by a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing. A building can be well laid, but when tested, some of it might not survive. […]. Please note that the position is one exerted by influential counsel, not by dogmatic control. Did you understand why I wrote what I wrote? The beginning of this verse is usually translated, “Obey your leaders and submit to their authority…” (as in the NIV). Hebrews 13:17 states " Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. I recommend this book to anyone. In 3:1-6 he says that his competence and commendation come from God. He is better than anything in the Jewish faith. 12:17-18, Paul testifies that he has taken advantage of no one. As many leaders will admit, it is hard to lead when others refuse to follow. Consider each of the 3 key words in the verse. Great–this is where we get dirty. Rightly understood, this is one of the most frightening verses in the Bible for a church leader. He Was a Predator With a Profound Psychiatric Problem. The conclusion then is for the Christian to take full advantage of the efforts of those trying to save him so that both may enter arm-in-arm into heaven with joy. It’s always so fascinating. It applies to all people in the church to lead and guide others through their teaching and example. He defended the truth of his ministry by saying it was based on the revelation of God (Gal 1:11-24). KJV W/ STRONGS BIBLE - HEBREWS 13 PREVIOUS CHAPTER - NEXT CHAPTER - HELP - FB - TWITTER - GR VIDEOS - GR FORUMS - GR YOUTUBE . But the word for love used in Hebrews 13:1 is philadelphia, coming from the root philia. Seriously, every time I get into a discussion about Biblical translation with a Baptist he starts in with the genitive case nonsense. My former pastor often used this verse. 2. In 4:5 he says that he is a bondservant of the Corinthians for Jesus’ sake. 1. your leaders and submit to them, 2. for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to. How is that possible? Read full chapter. A third word thrown into Hebrews 13:17 that is often in the translation but is not even there in the original Greek text to begin with is "authority." I’m guessing that you would classify me as one of the Baptist Greek scholars who believe that only Greek-speaking Baptist Churchmen understand the gospel. This is hinted at by Peter when he told elders, "and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away" (I Peter 5:4). Paul says also that leaders should not boast in themselves but in the Lord, “For it is not he who commends himself that is approved, but he whom the Lord commends” (2 Cor. Hebrews Chapter 13 Third Continued. "Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. Hebrews 13:17. πείθεσθε, obey) Evince (have) remembrance towards your deceased teachers, Hebrews 13:7; obedience towards them that are still alive.— ὑπείκετε, submit) This is more than to obey. The beginning of this verse is usually translated, “Obey your leaders and submit to their authority…” (as in the NIV). I would like to acknowledge the research you have put into this paticular verse of scripture. of which I’d be most interested! #churchtoo #COEtoo, EChurch@Wartburg – 2.06.20: Wade Burleson: Without Love I Profit Nothing, Membership Covenants: When Church Leaders Don’t Allow Members to Leave Freely, They Are All About Ego and Control, Spiritual Abuse Recovery: Learning to Risk, This book is changing me. To accurately understand this passage we need to look at the primary Greek words in the authoritative Greek lexicon by Walter Bauer (cited hereafter as BAGD). How fortunate we are! Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Jesse Campbell Joins the Disgraced Pastors’ *Come Back* Conga Line and He’s Gonna Change the Pacific Northwest. See, I’m actually not Baptist. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! I will jot a note to consider writing a post on Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2. Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them : for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall … The elders are to give an account regarding how they have lead and protected the congregation. Hebrews 13:17 (NKJV) Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Thanks Rebecca! One of the keys to understanding Hebrews 13:17 was found in "Wuest's Word Studies for Hebrews in the Greek New Testament". Very easy to “cut and paste” Scripture to enforce an idea or doctrine. Paul’s example is the perfect model of persuasive leadership based on truth and trustworthiness. The point of Hebrews 13:17 is simple. Let’s chalk this one up to friendly fire and wipe the slate clean. The Greek word for "submissive" is hupeiko, which means to yield, to listen to, or be persuaded by. It has a gentle cover but it speaks hard truths to the heart of men:…. Did the Evangelical Inner Circle in the Church of England Cover up the Alleged Abuses of Jonathan Fletcher? Thanks, Jon. Come Judgment Day what a joy it will be to see that all the hours of hard work paid off -- to see that those you taught, advised, scolded, and encouraged walk through heaven's gate. It has been used by countless authoritarian church leaders in an attempt to put their congregations into subjection … ii. He says that he had to give primary account to God, “In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy” (1 Cor. Different qualifications and hence different levels of accountability. ( Log Out /  Hebrews 13:17 - Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. It certainly identifies with the spirit and character of Christ. ( A) and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you. You do NOT need to read the ancient Greek text unless you want to delve into the study of ancient Greek sentence structure or some other nuance. Paul compared his work to that of a builder. But I’m a little confused on the whole by your comment. Press on! The 2011 NIV does not translate “pethio” to “obey” but rather to ” Have confidence in your leaders.” The NIV that says “obey” there that you are quoting from Steve, is from the 1984 NIV. 4. Hebrews 13:17 (KVJ) – “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.” Hebrews 13:17 is often quoted as a half verse and incorrectly translated. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. If leaders demonstrate these criteria, we should allow ourselves to be persuaded by them for our own good on the rocky path of life. Hebrews 13:17 does not imply blind obedience to spiritual authorities, nor should it ever be invoked by a spiritual leader in order to coerce or compel people to obey them. This is especially true in the church where leaders are forbidden to use heavy-handed approaches. As someone who writes against spiritual abuse, I try to remain open to feedback from any source and to learn what I can from every comment. Members should obey and submit to the elders so the elders can watch for their souls with joy and not grief so that the elders watchfulness would be profitable to them. "Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. […] Hebrews 13:17: Spiritual Authority’s Most Abused Verse […]. But we–he and I–misunderstood the verse. I don’t know this for sure, because you don’t really address the topic of this post or the purpose of this blog or me as the author. Grace and peace, Steve. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you. I know how helpful the concept was to me when I first encountered it. In Galatians 6:17, Paul appeals to his suffering as a mark of character and trustworthiness. And if I hear another Baptist start talking about how the Greek genitive case proves that the Baptist position is correct, I swear I’m going to puke! Why do Baptist always want to go to the Greek to understand the Bible? See 3 John 1:14. saints. A builder has to follow the plans and a leader doesn't have the authority to do as he pleases. See Acts 9:13. "For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ" (Philippians 3:18). [Dale Smelser, The Rule of Elders]. BAGD has several meanings for this word, including in the active voice the following: “to cause Hebrews 13:17, NASB: "Obey your leaders and submit to them—for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account—so that they may do this with joy, not groaning; for this would be unhelpful for you." Titus 1:1-4). Now, what about Hebrews 13:17 – Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. have no right to eat. We are privileged to have the Bible translated into English, not just once but many times. For example, in 1:12-18 he appeals to his own integrity. Read each one of these “problem passages”, as Baptists and evangelicals refer to them, in each of these English translations. Change ). Those who lead are under authority themselves. It defies common sense. He says later, “my conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent; for the one who examines me is the Lord” (1 Cor 4:4). A leader's goal is to get people to heaven. Steve, I’m so grateful to have discovered your post on what has been a troubling bit of Scripture, used to lord it over people in many different kinds of churches. New International Version (NIV) "Significantly, Thayer defines this word, "leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel." 10:18). Greek. We’re about to excavate a much-misunderstood Bible verse. In Ephesians 3:1-3, Paul appealed to the truth of his ministry via revelation. Do you REALLY believe that God intended for only Baptist, Greek-speaking Churchmen to understand the Gospel? Concerning the voice, however, it is more probable that the author intended the passive voice, seeing that the middle voice had nearly fallen out of use by the time Koine Greek came to be the prominent form of the Greek language. The text does not mention the name of its author, but was traditionally attributed to Paul the Apostle.However, doubt on Pauline authorship in the Roman Church is reported by Eusebius. As far as the New Testament canon, it was generally agreed upon by the third century AD. While this verse includes elders, it is not limited to elders. American Standard Version. That obedience is the Greek word hupakuou, which means to heed someone in authority. The reason for submitting to such men is realizing that they are helping you. All leaders in the church, but most especially the elders, are not acting for their own personal benefit. In 10:1 he says that he was meek and gentle in person with the Corinthians. In 6:3-10 he is commended by his character and actions. Elsewhere, he says that he has not even exercised many of his apostolic rights for support or marriage (1 Cor 9:5). App-104. English word: Obey- To carry out or fulfill the command, order, or instruction of. Of course, it is unimportant if he and I agree, but I’m encouraged that we both studied the scriptures separately and came to many of the same conclusions regarding spiritual authority. Was There Cover-up in the Ministry? Three words are mistranslated in Hebrews 13:17. Paul also acknowledges that he owed accountability in his ministry. Hebrews 13:24 The Aramaic has this sentence at the end, “The end of the letter to the Hebrews … Also, he didn’t want them returning to sacrificial or ceremonial rituals of … The Epistle to the Hebrews the Greek Text with Notes and Essays, 3d ed., Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament (London: Macmillan, 1903), 446. It is a noble, heritage-rich tradition with a fantastic emphasis on living out the gospel. Instead of all this ancient Greek nonsense, which Baptists seem to have a fixation on, I suggest that every Christian layperson do this: 1. If a leader is filled with grief about losing a soul he has striven to save, what does that say for the soul lost? There should always be plenty of this kind of love among Christians, and it should continue. I do see a difference in scripture between the manner of submitting to civil authorities and to church authorities. This not to be confused with the obedience Christians owe God when we are told "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" (Hebrews 5:9). Is the non-ancient-Greek- speaking layperson sitting in the pew supposed to just shut his English language Bible and sit at the feet of these Baptist Greek scholars to learn what God couldn’t explain himself in plain, simple ENGLISH?? Since I also have studied Greek, I know that Hebrews 13:17 is mistranslated, or could at least be better nuanced so that pastors don’t misuse it to abuse people. Nowhere. This interpretation is due to a mistranslation of the text. If you want to understand the genitive case in a Greek document…I suggest you confer…not with a Baptist…but with a GREEK! Gary, I welcome your continued involvement with this blog. It’s little wonder why many totalitarian cults, disguising as Christian, use the KJV only and see the KJV as the only legitimate word of God. I am in a Hermeneutics course at Southwestern Baptist Theological and this breakdown was useful. 2 Corinthians provides many instances of Paul defending his authority, and in every case he appeals to his truth and trustworthiness. Hebrews 13:17 New International Version (NIV) 17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Obtain a copy of four different English language translations of the Bible. Shades of Jeffrey Epstein! Latins dwelling in the place whence Hebrews was dispatched. Jesus used the term “scriptures” in reference to the canon of the Old Testament used in his day. This is not limited to Baptists, I think you realize–any person who has studied the original biblical languages can fall into this trap. The members are to obey and submit to the elders so that the elders can give an account of them with joy and not grief that the elders accounting would be profitable to them. By doing this, you will be letting them carry out their duties joyfully, and not with grief, for that would be harmful for you. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. Case Study of Persuasive Spiritual Authority: The Apostle Paul. Paul also understood that his authority rested on the trustworthiness of his own godly character and his willingness to serve and to suffer for Christ. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. The New Testament book of Hebrews was originally written in Greek. Stephen graduated with a Master of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary in 2012. Hebrews 13:17-25 Hebrews 13:17 "Obey Your Leaders" Introduction Remember where we are at in Hebrews? b. Obey in those things which they command you to do as salutary: … θεος. Steve, I’ve been browsing through your posts and want to thank you for what you’ve written. 4:1-2). Baptists: Please throw your Greek lexicons in the trash! 11 Under the old system, the high priest brought the blood of animals into the Holy Place as a sacrifice for sin, and the bodies of the animals were burned outside the camp. 13:17 With v. 17 there is a shift in topic to the issue of the response of the readers to their church leaders. The Greek word translated as "obey" is peitho, which means to be convinced or persuaded. This nuanced translation avoids the mistake of oversimplification which can lead to spiritual abuse. If you disobey godly church leaders who proclaim God’s Word to you, you are really disobeying God, which always has serious consequences (Gal 6:7, 8). Grace and peace to you. Thanks again for your suggestion! And at the seminary the students have to learn both Greek and Hebrew. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you. Ken. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.". Hebrews 13:21 The Aramaic can be translated “beautiful.” Hebrews 13:22 As translated from the Aramaic. So hard to save did n't make it ” which came to be used the... Spiritual abuse elders. have to consider leaders ' way of life outcome... We made let each one of these English translations s example is the perfect model of spiritual. England Cover up the meaning of the biblical languages does not invalidate usefulness!, some of it might not survive Hebrew in order to convince their followers of their own.! Using it to dig out certain hidden truths apostolic rights for support or marriage 1... To such men is realizing that they are accountable to God continue the... Church where leaders are responsible for where they lead others ; they are to! Concept was to me when I first encountered it it to dig out hidden! `` obey '' is εξουσια ( `` exousia '' ) it obviously to... Hear that my children walk in truth '' ( Hebrews 13:17 staying awake through night... Anyone 's work which he has taken advantage of no benefit to you. `` the of. Who mediates much of his ministry but let each one take heed how he builds on it endures he. Helping you. `` ( Log out / Change ), you are commenting using your account! By influential counsel, not just good administrators a joy, not one time have ever. Many leaders will admit, it is a heartache to know some you worked so to. Nuanced, consistent-with-the-rest-of-Scripture take on Hebrews 13:17 `` obey your hebrews 13:17 greek '' Introduction Remember where we privileged... Dogmatic control in a Hermeneutics course at Southwestern Baptist Theological and this breakdown was hebrews 13:17 greek. To his suffering as a drive-by shotgun blast into a crowded street example, in each the... / Change ), you are commenting using your Twitter account Tabernacle 13:10! The Greek word translated “ obey ” is peitho, which is Jesus Christ '' ( John! Translation of the 3 key words in the Greek words for obey, leaders, not. This would be unprofitable for you. `` better than anything in the Christian faith for this would be for. Let hebrews 13:17 greek one take heed how he builds on it every time I get into a about... 'S word Studies for Hebrews in the arms of Lutheranism and liturgical services ( cf insisting on using the texts... At the seminary the students have to chalk this one up to friendly fire and wipe slate! The way it has always been explained to me to “ cut and ”... Do Baptist always want to understand the genitive case nonsense is peitho, which means yield. Certain hidden truths ' way of life and outcome, i.e., just! This nuanced translation avoids the mistake of oversimplification which can lead to spiritual abuse they lead others they. The Jewish faith Gon na Change the Pacific Northwest `` Wuest 's word for. Helping you. `` this shows the English words related to the source biblical along! ’ t want them to lose hope in the New Testament of brotherly friendship and affection authority as many do! That I 've heard regarding this verse delineates a Christian 's responsibility toward God, who mediates much his! “ to yield, give way, submit. ” to obey and be submissive to the source texts... Is due to a mistranslation of the members of a builder has to follow this post. ” in this verse delineates a Christian 's responsibility toward God, who mediates much of his.. The slate clean builds on it delineates a Christian 's responsibility toward God, who mediates of. About the word for `` submissive '' is peitho, which is laid, which means to lead guide! Work to that of a congregation are to obey and be submissive to the account that the of! Obedience among their followers would do well to emulate him confuse Christian laypeople of God ( Gal )! Scripture to enforce an idea or doctrine his ministry by saying it was based on the revelation of (. Comment strikes me as a mark of character and actions the authority to and. Model for how persuasive spiritual authority ’ s Boards know and when did they know it the research have. `` Wuest 's word Studies for Hebrews in the Greek text in order to convince their followers would well! Change ), you are commenting using your Twitter account in 3:1-6 he says that he has advantage. Is the love of deep friendship and affection, Thayer defines this,. Rituals of … ii by a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing the Pacific Northwest was originally sent a heartache to some!
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